Season 8, episode 1: Pleasure beyond orgasm with
EV’YAN WHITNEY
Danielle Bezalel (she/her):
Hello Ev’Yan, welcome to the podcast, how are you today?
Ev'Yan Whitney (They/them):
Hi, I'm good. How are you?
Danielle Bezalel:
I'm really good. I am very excited to chat with you. You are someone I have admired from afar for a very long time, and it's
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
an absolute pleasure to get to know you. I think like in the first couple years of being a sex educator and doing sex ed with DB, you are someone that's been on my inspiration board, if you will, of people
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Aww.
Danielle Bezalel (she/her):
in the space who, yeah, like seriously, incredibly important and mindful work. And so I'm just very lucky, I feel, to get to talk to you today. So thank you.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and like such generosity that you've given me with your words. I really appreciate that.
Danielle Bezalel:
of course. And for folks who don't necessarily have you on their inspiration board quite yet, I'm wondering if
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hehehe
Danielle Bezalel:
you can introduce yourself and just share a little bit about your work.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, yeah. So my name is Ev’Yan Whitney. I use they, them pronouns. I am a sexuality doula, a somatic practitioner and a sensualist. I have a bunch of different pots on the burner when it comes to the work that I do. I work with people one-on-one. I have a podcast called Sensual Self. I have a book also called Sensual Self. And really with everything that I do, the philosophy behind my work is around helping folks guide themselves into their own sexual liberation and their own sexual healing, whatever that looks like for them. And really coming from this space of like unshaming, reclaiming, and healing our sexuality at these intersections of pleasure, embodiment, race, gender identity, and yeah, honoring the body. So that's a bit, that's a little bit of what I do.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah, just a tad, you know, very multifaceted, a lot going on.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
I think something that I really, really appreciate about you, and at least like, you know, everyone is very different, I presume, from the kind of content sometimes that we put out into the world, there are many levels to us and what we're feeling and what we're thinking. But I really get such a sense of honesty and transparency from you. And I'm sure you
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
get this a lot, but it really does feel like I, I know about you and it's a very special feeling when you haven't actually met somebody yet.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
And like this idea that you have of honoring the body, I think that that really comes through in your work and in your content and in your education. And so I wonder if we can start today by just sharing a phrase or a word that really describes how you're feeling in your body today and in your mind.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm. Hmm. How am I feeling in my body and my mind today? Hmm. My body feels a little slow, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I have been trying to slow my pace this year and really work with the rhythms, the natural fluctuations of my energy in my body, and really trying to do this thing where I'm not moving at the speed of light for
Danielle Bezalel:
Sure.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
no reason. So I think it's a combination of this weather today. It's a little cloudy in Los Angeles, And it just makes me want to slow down and move at a pace where I can hear myself and feel myself more. So I'm feeling a little slow today. And my mind is feeling pretty at peace, which is wonderful because the last few weeks have been, there's been a lot going on. There's a lot of fullness happening in my life right now and a lot of thoughts that and dreams and goals and yeah, in this moment, I'm just feeling like, ah, my brain is kind of like taking a break from a lot of the thoughts that I've been having over the last few weeks. So yeah, when I hear myself say all this too, I'm like, oh, slow and at peace. I like that. I love
Danielle Bezalel:
pretty,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
this for me.
Danielle Bezalel:
yeah, pretty good. I think like, I think
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
like, like checking in with ourselves around that, obviously can can change minute to minute, right? I think like,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Right.
Danielle Bezalel:
we can be very temperamental creatures. And it really depends on mood and hunger, and like how your muscles are feeling and
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Totally.
Danielle Bezalel:
like, what your friend said to you on your last phone call. And there are just a lot of things that can affect us. And so I'm very glad that in this moment, you're feeling a little slow body and peaceful in mind, which is a
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
great thing.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, thank you for asking that question. Ha
Danielle Bezalel:
course,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
ha.
Danielle Bezalel:
yeah. I'm wondering a little bit if we could go back and if you can tell me a little bit about kind of how you got here, right. And this question that we asked all of our guests is, you know, what was your sex ed like growing up? And,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
you know, a kind of a two parter, like, what really made you so passionate about this work? And does that have
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
to do with your sex ed growing up or your, you know, ways of learning about is it something else?
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, yeah. The sex education I got growing up was pretty much non-existent. So I was raised in a religious conservative home. So the bulk of my sex education was around the body, like anatomy, you know, men have penises, women have vulvas, this is how babies are born and formed. also abstinence only. So it was very, it was very, there wasn't a lot of room to move around. There wasn't a lot of conversation to be had. It was like marriage, sex is for marriage. And it's, it happens between two people who love each other and you should not be having sex if you're not married. And
Danielle Bezalel:
Mm-hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
if you have sex and you're not married, then you're going to hell.
Danielle Bezalel:
To put it lightly, yeah.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
I signed my first purity contract when I was eight, and
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
that gave me so much of an understanding at a very young age before I could even really understand what I was actually signing. It told me everything that I needed to know about my body, about sex, about who has a right to my body and who... whether or not I have agency or autonomy over my own body. So I started from that place and growing up, I was really trying to understand in this world that is so sex soaked and sex obsessed, like, okay, I'm getting these teachings from my church and my parents about abstinence and about sin and how bad masturbation is and how you shouldn't have erotic thoughts and all of these things. I'm given a lot of messages in the media and books that I'm reading and magazines and television shows about sex and how fun sex is and how pleasurable it can be and how it can be a really wonderful way to connect with people that you love and you care about or just like to have a good time. So I remember growing up and coming into like my teenage years being really confused and navigating a world that was telling me sex is bad and also sex is really good. And in that sex is really good, I was also seeing that sex was a way that you got attention. It was a way that you were popular or you got boys and things like that. So there was lots of desirability politics meshed up in there. It was a lot. of guidance or structure or conversations or safe spaces that I could go to where I could get resources about how to unpack all of these like layers and nuances of sex and sexuality or to even ask these like really granular questions of like, okay, so everybody is telling you what sex is and what sex should be, but how do you want to feel
Danielle Bezalel:
Hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
in your sexual experiences? And like, what is important to you? You know, everyone says that you shouldn't have sex, but like, if you wanna have sex, how might you do that in a way that is safe and in a way that, you know, is conscious of your own sensitivities and your own safety? So I got into this work really from this place of like trying to relearn and unlearn in a lot of ways, like all of these lessons and things that I was taught about sex and sexuality wrong, or just, I don't want to say wrong, but just like they did not align with the way that I wanted to be and experience my own body, my own sexuality. There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of shame. And I was really curious about like, what was on the other side of that? Like if everyone seems to talk about this sex as being this amazing thing, but I'm not experiencing that for myself. So what is on the other side of shame and to sex. So yeah, becoming a sex educator was not the thing that I imagined I would be doing with my life. I had other plans, but it's very clear to me that this is such a, not just a passion, something that I give of service to others, but it's also something that I give of service to myself, to this like younger version of myself that did not receive comprehensive and open, gender, identity, love, all of those things. So it's been... And one of the things actually I wanted to touch on as you were talking about, about how the work that I do is... I really give so much of myself and make myself really vulnerable. And there's a lot of honesty and transparency within the work that I do. And it really comes from that place. I feel that I do to guide and usher others into their own sexual awakenings, whatever that looks like for themselves, I am also on this journey and I am also on this path as well. And that it feels really important to me that like I am also learning and growing and educating and unlearning right alongside the folks that I work with.
Danielle Bezalel:
Of course. Yeah, I can imagine all of the healing and the like fullness as you said it and the wholeness that comes with like prompting people to kind of think through some of these things that you
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
buy, by proxy, I guess are also thinking through. And I guess like one reaction is the whole, you know, purity contract at eight years old. And you're just kind of like, okay, pretty contract mega yikes like I don't like that period period but I think like an eight year old it is is like a perfect person to sway into thinking certain things
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yep.
Danielle Bezalel:
and it's so frustrating and sad that that is unfortunately the norm in our like American society and many many states and cultures and
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
something like that is illegal. I mean, like,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
it feels so terrible to think that that's still happening, right?
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. When I think back to those moments, it just feels really gross in my body, you know?
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
And especially because like what you said, it's like that's... And this is something that I've been unpacking so much in therapy. Like I feel so much anger that that was something that I didn't really understand what purity was or virginity was or what even sex was. And yet I'm in this space, which is supposed to be a safe space. It's in church and it's amongst my church friends and leaders that I have given a lot of trust to and I have seen as an authority figure the fact that this was part of my story and now a part of my body. Like, purity culture lives deep inside of me because of those very formative years that it was given to me without very much context, without my consent in terms of like, let's talk about what you're signing. Like, let's talk about what abstinence means and like, let's also like project a little bit into the future. Cause like, I'm eight years old now, but like if I'm making this contract, how is that gonna feel when I'm 16? How is that gonna feel when I'm 25, if I'm not married still? thinking about the impacts of that. And it's something that I've seen a lot with the folks that I've worked with as well who have had similar backgrounds, being raised in religious households, having similar purity culture, upbringings and things like that. They're also experiencing the same dissociation with their sexuality and their bodies because at a very young age, that's what they were taught to do. And it was also upheld this is what good people do. And if you're good, then you will be loved. And if you're loved, you will be happy. Like it's just, it's, it's really sick and twisted. I really wish that purity culture was something that folks got a chance to opt into because I don't necessarily think that signing a purity contract is a bad thing. If that's something you're giving fully like informed consent about, okay, this is what this is. This is what this means. Also, can be broken. And if you want
Danielle Bezalel:
Sure.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
to break that contract, that's okay too. We are allowed to change our minds. We are allowed to grow outside of the boundaries that we have placed within ourselves. It's giving that as like an obligation, you know? Like it's giving that as like something that there's no other choice that you have. Like I wasn't able to make a choice. This was the only option that I think is really harmful and does a lot of particularly women and femmes because I don't believe that. I'm certain that men and masculine identified folks likely signed contracts like these, but the majority of the folks that I talk to and the majority of the folks that I work with are women, femme identifying folks, non-binary people, and they have the same experience, you know?
Danielle Bezalel:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, again, there's so much to this when it comes to like, religion, culture, like folks of different communities. I think like Jane the Virgin, for example, did a really phenomenal job talking about like the way in which our, you know, grandmothers and like people who are
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
elder and like the way that they kind of compare like your virginity to a flower. And I think that really like
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yes.
Danielle Bezalel:
touched a lot of people and like felt like their experiences. And,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
you know, I kind of want to shift now a little bit. bit to what you're mentioning with folks that you work with, right? Like you, in 2014, pioneered the term sexuality doula, which even the term feels like very new, very much something that like I personally love and connect with, with the idea that you're doing this work helping people connect with their bodies. And you know, you're, you're educating, you're facilitating, you're supporting, as you mentioned, you know, you're holding space for women and non-binary folks, claim a lot of their sexual expressions and their bodies and really defining these ideas for them on their terms. And so I'm wondering if you can just share and again, everyone's different, of course, and I'm sure every it's very much like a, I'm thinking of like an IEP, like for a student, like an individualized
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
education plan, like everyone has their own kind of ideas of what to do next for themselves. But I'm wondering if you can just share a couple examples, maybe of like, practices and what that might look like for somebody who you work with as a sexuality doula.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Totally, yeah. So people come to me from a place of either disconnection or lack of education, fear, anxiety, or shame around sex and all the other things that follow underneath that umbrella. So gender, relationship structures, pleasure, the relationship that they have with their body, self-care. It really is wrapped around so much experience and are in play with and relationship with when it comes to sex. So folks come to me because they're like I feel really lost. I don't have a sense of who I am as a sexual person but I really want to know. Like I really want to know this version of myself. I don't I just don't know where to start. Like there's just so much compacted onto this process for me. Like it's hard for me to talk about sex. It's hard for me to even have sex. I've been given so many and ideas about who I'm supposed to be sexually, and I don't know which is true, and what I should do, and what I shouldn't do. So my work looks like really creating a space for folks to flesh all of this stuff out, like flesh out the shame, flesh out the teachings, the stories that they've been given that don't fit for them, and also to invite in some curiosity and some excitement around like, if you could design your sexuality to be exactly the way that you want it to be, and all these other stories and all these other narratives and shoulds that have been placed upon you could just like fall away, what would you design? Like who would you wanna be? How would you wanna create yourself? So it's a combination of like working with what is holding folks back from attaining this sort of sexual identity sexual expression that they want to have and also like creating space for them to explore that. Like creating space for them to take on these different identities that may not have been offered to them or available to them. Part of my work also is around sort of liberating and bringing more education around the asexual experience. So this idea that and it is okay if your sexuality or your sexual desire or your libido fluctuates. And what does it look like for you to include that within your identity? Like to say, actually, I don't really want to prioritize sex. And that comes from its deep, sincere place, not necessarily from a place of trauma or shame, but because like there are other things that I want to focus on in my life. Like this isn't something that is important to me. So how can we include that identities and also give them space to explore different ways of connection, intimacy with themselves and others, and pleasure as being a part of that experience. I work with sensuality a lot, which is about just having a deep, intimate relationship with your body and your senses and folding in pleasure into that without necessarily having sex be a part of that. So I've said a lot about what that looks like. One of the first places that I go toward is the body. What is folks' relationships with their body? Just on a regular degular, not within a sexual context, but you're walking around your apartment. What are the thoughts that are coming up around your body? What is the self-talk that you have when you are eating a meal or getting dressed or taking off your clothes? We have sex with our bodies, and it makes sense to me that we would be very curious about how to heal ourselves, how to heal whatever sexual ruptures we have had through our bodies and through the relationship that we have with our bodies. So that's where I fold somatics and really folding in the wisdom, the deep inherent wisdom of the body, working with practices through the body to help people to express, to release, and to just get curious about what are the sensations, that live here and how can that wisdom help guide me on this path toward liberation, toward healing, toward pleasure and toward aliveness. So body is something that we work with first. The other question that I ask is like, what is your relationship to pleasure like? And not within a sexual realm, again, also just from a place of like, what are the ways that you make your body feel good? And like, do you have a relationship with making your body feel good? And what's beautiful about these things exploring outside of us, outside of a sexual context, is that once we get really clear about the relationship that we have with our bodies, about the relationship that we have with pleasure, outside of sex, we can then bring that into sexual context with new information, new ways to engage with that, that don't feel so bogged down by a lot of the shoulds and stories that we have about the way that we should be in our bodies during sex, the way that we should be in our pleasure during sex. really work first, kind of like taking sex out of the equation a little bit, and just like a holistic view, like tell me what your body is like, like tell me what it's like to be in your body, tell me what makes your body feel good, and oftentimes just like having that dialogue opens up so much and it allows me to see like, okay, this is where we need to go, this is where I would like for us to go, and here are some of the practices that I can work with you on to help you go deeper.
Danielle Bezalel:
I imagine even just taking the sexual piece out of it, like you just said, and just having time and space for people to think through what brings me joy, pleasure and happiness on a day to day, like when
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
are we being encouraged to do that? Never.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
It's like,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
never.
Danielle Bezalel:
it's like numb yourself with this TV show or
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
like, pretend like you are, you know, not worried about or, you know,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
right?
Danielle Bezalel:
there's very little opportunity that we have in our really fast paced environment with so many emergencies, right? Like the news, the election,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
politics. There's a great expectation, at least I feel in my circles as an adult, to kind of be on top of my shit and know what's going on. And that leaves pretty little room for me to really focus inward. to use your word that you're feeling about your body today like slow it down
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yep.
Danielle Bezalel (she/her):
a little bit. And so I find that that's kind of revolutionary to really be able to think through like what brings me pleasure what feels good in a non sexual way and and then once those things are identified then kind of taking it to like a phase two in a sense
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
if that's something that someone is interested in doing.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah. And I work with a lot of survivors for whom sex is just really difficult or it comes with a lot of weight, comes with a lot of baggage. And for me, as someone who is also a survivor, it feels really important to take sex out of the equation as a way to just very gently sex life was just too much. And what I really needed to do was start from the very beginning, which was like, what relationship do I have with my body? And the more I began to heal that and understand that, the more I could find new ways of resilience that I could tap into so that when I began to start going into these realms of my sexual trauma or my sexual desires, I had something that I could lean back into in my own body. is as trauma-informed as possible with this understanding that sometimes it's not helpful or useful to go straight into like, okay, so let's talk about orgasms because we need more time. A lot of us haven't been in safe spaces or have had safe conversations around sex and sexuality. And the idea that we could just jump right into that without allowing people to acclimate and resilience within these conversations,
Danielle Bezalel:
Hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
that's really important to me. I really wanna make sure that in everything that I do and every class that I teach, every talk that I give, every session that I'm in with someone, that they're safe first and foremost. And if that means that we are spending the first month, not even really talking about sex, but we're just exploring like senses, you know, you being in your own body from a non-sexual place, if that is going to help us get to a space of like possibility and dreaming and healing around sexuality, I'm all for slowing down so that we can feel and find more safety within this process because we all need it. We all need that so much.
Danielle Bezalel:
it really shows you saying like you it's really important to you that people feel safety and comfort like I feel that when I like view your content, and I'm not even
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
working with you one on one so like just wanted to share like it very much shows that that's prioritized and it comes through.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm. Thank you.
Danielle Bezalel:
And yeah, and I think like, another aspect to this right, is that none of this is stagnant. Like it's it's it's like a river, right? Like this idea of how you feel about your body and your sexuality and yourself and your partner if that's, you know, in your life. And it really ebbs and flows. And I think like this idea that we're just gonna have this, you know, it's not like a mountain to climb where like the peak is like, you're all of a sudden, like your best sexual self, it's a muscle,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
right, that you kind of have to like, really, and a garden for me when it comes to body image and self image and like, like what you said before, like, how do you feel about your body when you take your clothes off or when you get dressed in the morning or, you know, when you look at your yourself in the mirror. And I think like it's, it's, it's this muscle that like you have to be encouraged either by yourself or by, you know, an expert such as yourself to say like, what like feels good to you? Like when you look in the
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
mirror, in yourself, whether that's on the outside and the inside. It's such an important practice. We talk about exercising all the time as a society to build our physical health and to get stronger. We don't talk about how to build our self image, which really
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
impacts so many pieces of us.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
so many pieces. It's all connected, you know? It's all connected. It's not... I have tried to work within my own sexual healing from this place of like, oh, if I just like buy this particular toy or try this particular technique, it's going to unlock everything that was constricted in my body, all the norms and narratives. Like, it's just going to be fine. I'll just show up and do the thing. It's fine. And it's like, no, actually, especially when we're thinking about marginalized folks, like this is all of this stuff. There's so much history and there's so much wrapped into our sex lives. I mean, we've have hundreds and hundreds of years of stigma and dogma around this aspect of ourselves and also confusion as well, you know, just like coming back to these dueling messages that I was given when I was a kid, like sex is bad and then, but sex is so good. Sex is like MTV, you know,
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
So like, we have a lot of conflicting information. We have a lot of dissociation between ourselves, like who we want to be as sexual beings and also what our culture is constantly trying to tell us that we should be. So yeah, it makes sense for me that we start small, that we start slow. And we also start with a lot of reverence of like what it has taken for us. us to be here, and not even just in our own bodies, but thinking about what our grandmothers taught us about
Danielle Bezalel:
Hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
sex and sexuality, the traumas that they have experienced, our ancestry, like how sex was spoken about to them and how that was carried down into our lore, like our family lore, like it's all connected. So whenever I'm in session with people, I'm not even just, the way I see it is that I'm not in session with just this one individual, like their family and like these traditions that were passed down to them about their body, about rest, about pleasure, about who has a choice over their own bodies. All of it's connected. All of it's connected. And that's what makes this work so rich for me because it's not just like, dildos. It's like, let's talk about intergenerational trauma and how
Danielle Bezalel:
Alright.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
we can like in your lineage. Like that is... ugh.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
That makes me feel so good.
Danielle Bezalel:
that's very, yeah, I mean, very powerful thought. And I think like, thinking through to about like, the amount of grace that we want to give to people who kind of came to us, whether that be our parents or our grandparents or aunts or, you know, people in our families because of what they were taught. And I think like, for myself, I know that I want to be a parent my best with my kids when it comes to teaching them everything in like a really kind, patient way. And like parents fuck up all the time. And like that really sucks
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
that like kids are so impressionable. And like the idea that a parent would, you know, be able to say like, Hey, like I kind of fucked up here. And like, here's what I wish I would have said. I think
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
like a lot of young people and old just people who have relationships with their parents that conversation is very much needed for some of that healing.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yes, 100%. 100%.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah. Going back a little bit to you know, this is kind of a meta question, because it's about like how you feel about being like a public person, what you're doing right
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm
Danielle Bezalel:
now in this interview. But you know, we talked about you being very open and transparent in many aspects of your life, your practices, your feelings, and how things kind of go for you behind the scenes sometimes and what that really looks like. You know, you shared your thoughts and feelings about book grief during the one year anniversary of your your book, Sensual Self,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
you know, due to how isolating and lonely it could be to write a book despite how exciting and thrilling it could be in the same breath or in a different moment. And
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
I'm wondering like what have maybe been like, some of the most surprising moments and learnings for you from doing this very public, intentional, embodied, connected and laborious work for yourself
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
and for others.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, that's an excellent question. One of the biggest things that I've learned is that we are all connected. Like, I used to think that I was the only person on Earth that was struggling with their sexuality.
Danielle Bezalel:
Hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Like, that was an actual belief that I had. I was like, everybody else is having the best sex of their lives. And little old me was in my apartment being like, I don't even know what good sex is. how to do that with my body. And through this work, I have seen the power of community and the power of relationality, like being able to connect to each other through similar experiences that we're all having. We're all, not all, most of us are having similar experiences about this. And that has been really wonderful. And I've seen the power of that in what I share. my ace identity, I was floored to see that so many people were like, oh my God, I'm ace too, or I think I'm ace as well. I've never thought of my sexuality in this context before. Like the healing power of community and being able to see and witness each other. It not only helps you to not feel alone, but it also creates this beautiful support network. That allows you to feel like, yeah, got a community at my back. I'm not the only one that is experiencing this experience. And I can look to other people and be inspired by them. This idea of a possibility model, this idea that you are not alone and that there's someone that you can look to that can inspire you about what's possible for you. Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things. that I've learned is I've just been sort of fumbling through my own journey and being so honest about what's moving and shaking and challenging me is remembering like, oh, this is not an isolated experience. Like there are many people who are having this same or a similar experience and feeling that makes me feel less alone and it also helps connect me to the people who connect with my work.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah, this power of community is not to be taken lightly. I think, especially with social media, like we are allowed to really be able to kind of like, see the stretchiness of like how far our feelings can really go and who kind of like, holds on to them and really appreciates them. And I think that that is what you do with your work, at least my experience of it.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
So yeah, that's to access like help other people access that I imagine.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
Moving on a little bit to me for a hot second. So when I'm overwhelmed and anxious in my body, which again, ebbs and flows, I think it really shifts depending on how much work that I'm doing. And if I've moved my body that day, and if I've sweat, and if I have eaten, and all of these interwoven pieces, I find myself really seeking or something
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm
Danielle Bezalel:
that I hope will work if I just give it kind of a little bit of space and time. And I've talked to a lot of people in my life who have really similar feelings around like, you know, I'm feeling like when things are a little out of control, I'm kind of like wanting something to fall back on that really like aids me and makes me feel
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm.
Danielle Bezalel:
a little bit more grounded. And I really love this practice that you shared of connecting to your pleasure in 60 seconds, and connecting to your body. You recently shared it on your Instagram.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
And I wonder if you can just kind of talk a little bit about it and share that a little bit here.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, yeah. So pleasure for me is one of the biggest ways for me to feel alive and more present in my body because pleasure stimulates my senses. It makes me feel alive. So one way that we can do this practice that isn't super lofty, cause I know pleasure is a big word and there's a lot of connotation that comes with that. And I know for me, when I was starting to dabble that it had to be these big grand gestures of bubble baths and four-hour massages and things like that, which
Danielle Bezalel:
right?
Ev'Yan Whitney:
is fine. But I'm really interested in creating spaces where it is accessible, where pleasure and being in your body is as accessible as possible. And also is kind of not centered around capitalism, like this idea that we can find pleasure just by virtue of being in our bodies, anything or go to a place or have someone do something to or for us in order to access that. So a practice of pleasure can be taking a small simple act. I think in the video that you're talking about I used maybe like a hand oil.
Danielle Bezalel:
Mm-hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Okay yeah so it's taking a small and simple act and it could be putting It could be doing your face routine, your skin routine in the morning. It could be braiding your hair, washing your hair, basically finding something that you're already doing and then slowing that process all the way down and allowing yourself to drink in the pleasure of that experience through your senses. So with the video that you're talking about, the practice was putting some oil on your hands And allowing yourself to like slow down the process, to feel what it feels like to emulsify the product in your hands, smelling it, using your nose to take in the scents, looking at your hands as you are rubbing the oil inside of them, feeling what it's like for you to touch yourself. Like what do you feel when you touch yourself from both the hand perspective and also from the you perspective. what I feel on my hand is this, and what I feel on the hand that is touching the hand is this.
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
And using the breath, using the breath to help ground you even more into your body. And even just doing 10 seconds of that can be so profound. I know for me, I do this practice often, and it helps me to be more grounded in my body. It helps my anxious mind to quiet a little bit. that like I am not on this earth just to toil and suffer. Like
Danielle Bezalel:
night.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
I am on this earth to feel good and to have these little moments of pleasure and enjoyment and savoring with my body. And I really find that to be a radical act, particularly in this world that is constantly telling us not to slow down and to not be in our bodies. So yeah, I recommend finding a simple practice that you're already doing A colleague of mine, Euphemia Russell, who wrote the book Slow Pleasure, talks about taking an act and adding 15% more pleasure into it. And I love that idea of just 15%. You don't have to go full 100. You don't even have to go full 30. But what would it be like for you to add 15% more pleasure to this particular practice, act activity that you're doing? So yeah. And Euphemia's work, they're one of my favorite people to talk about pleasure with.
Danielle Bezalel:
I love it. Yeah, it is radical. I mean, it shouldn't be I think, like, it's, it's so fun to experience pleasure. And it's it's pretty pure, right? It's like, how your body is feeling, and it is connecting to your mind, right? In those moments of like the hand cream, for example, like, smelling good, feeling good, that breathing,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
like, I just really connect to this idea of like, this small thing that you're able to do every day if you want to.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
couple more questions. Thank you again so much for being here. This has been so fun to talk to you.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
And
Ev'Yan Whitney:
my pleasure.
Danielle Bezalel:
yeah, great getting to know you. But I'm wondering if you can share one thing that you would want everyone to know about connecting to their bodies. If you had a microphone to the world, what would you say?
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Oh man, the microphone to the world. I would want people to know that their bodies are so intelligent, like
Danielle Bezalel:
Hmm.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
so intelligent. I've seen so many people who really treat the body like this thing that the brain has to lug around and control. And yeah, I want people to have more reverence and more respect for their bodies. I want people to know that their bodies are constantly talking to them and giving them messages, even when they think that they're not, and that it is so important that we listen. It's so important that we take moments to listen to the messages that our bodies are trying to give us, whether that is to slow down, to rest, to take a sip of water, to not say the thing, to stay inside. If people are trying to take you out and you're like, no, it's too late, I want to rest, what as a friend that we deeply respect, admire, and want to be in relationship with. I think coming to connection with our bodies from that place feels a lot better than just like, oh, my body is such a drag. And that's not to say that our bodies don't have those moments. I mean,
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
to have a body, sometimes it is a drag. Sometimes it is annoying,
Danielle Bezalel:
stuff.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
you know? trauma, like these are all things that we experience in our bodies and I understand the desire to want to disconnect and associate from that. But there's something very beautiful about paying attention to our bodies and like really honoring the voice of it and doing it in a slow and steady pace. Like we don't have to go straight into all of these areas that are challenging, but like what would it be like for you to just like make it a practice to put your hand on your heart? take a deep breath and just like tune in. Like what is what is my body saying to me right now? And I've given this practice to people before and often they're like it's so frustrating my body isn't saying anything to me. I'm like just keep coming back. Just keep coming back because you've had many many years of your body talking to you and you saying not today, not not right now. I'm not gonna listen to you. That's too inconvenient. I'm not I'm not gonna remember that you can be in a collaborative relationship with each other. So yeah, I say more body connection wherever you can, wherever you can find it.
Danielle Bezalel:
I love it. I love it. It's definitely something that I am taking to heart literally and emotionally
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
and psychologically.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
So thank you.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
I'm just wondering what's next for you and where our listeners can find you, get your book, kind of like hear more about your work, all that good stuff.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, you know, this year, and I kind of mentioned it at the beginning, I'm really trying to rest. I've done a lot these last few years. Yeah, I mean, my book came out and I was just running all over the place and I'm really trying to do a little less this year. I'm trying to slow down. I'm trying to rest. I'm trying to like take care of myself. So I don't have any exciting projects coming up. But that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the fruits of previous labors that I've done.
Danielle Bezalel:
Of course.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
So my book, Sensual Self, you can find that wherever you find books. It's a really beautiful self-guided journal that helps you tap into your body and connect to your pleasure. There's prompts in there and exercises that will help you to explore and get curious about the sensations of your bodies, the message of your body. I'm really proud of it. So you can find Sensual Self wherever you find books. I have a podcast also called Sensual Self where we talk about everything that we've talked about here, gender, sensuality, pleasure, being in your body, practices that you can do that can help you to connect with your breath. And yeah, Sensual Self, the podcast, you can find wherever you listen to podcasts. And of course I'm on Instagram. little reels and videos and resources that folks can engage with relating to asexuality and pleasure practices and I even did like this really cute little one with my partner the other day about flirting
Danielle Bezalel:
Loved it.
Danielle Bezalel:
Well, Ev’Yan, it's been so wonderful. Thank you again so much for being on. And yeah,
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Mm.
Danielle Bezalel:
it's really, really amazing. Thank you.
Ev'Yan Whitney:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure chatting with you.