Maintaining Successful Long-Term Relationships and Keeping The Spark Alive with Couples Clinician

DR. LEXX BROWN-JAMES

0:04:30 - Danielle Bezalel

Good afternoon, Dr. Lexx. How are you doing today? 

0:04:32 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. I'm great. How are you? 

0:04:35 - Danielle Bezalel

I'm really really good, we are thriving, we're getting by. I did a Peloton ride this morning so I'm feeling a little energized, which is good. 

0:04:45 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Okay!

0:04:45 - Danielle Bezalel

All right. So, yeah, we're doing good. I am really honored to have you on the podcast. We were talking about this offline, but I have been following you and been just so impressed by you and have thought you were very cool from afar for quite a long time, so I'm excited to get to chat with you today. 

0:05:05 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

You have no idea. I've been a nerd my entire life before it was cool. So the fact that people think I'm cool now is just beyond me. 

0:05:14 - Danielle Bezalel

Yeah, but embrace it. That's you, that's who you are, so why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself? You have many, many talents. You're a therapist, you're a sexologist, you're a sex educator. You wear many hats, so why don't you go ahead and tell the people who you are? 

0:05:31 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Absolutely. So all up under this head wrap, I am Dr.. Lexx Brown James, so I have a lot of letters behind my name. I'm a PhD, lmft, cse, cscs, which basically says I talk about sex and sexuality from womb to tomb. I have the pleasure of being able to connect the worlds of education and therapy, so I've been a therapist for like almost 15 years at this point Wow, it's so odd to say out loud and I'm also an educator, so I have a PhD in education and specifically around sexuality. So I really help people learn and lean into shame. Free sex ed from womb to tomb at age. Appropriate and accessible forms of information. 

0:06:16 - Danielle Bezalel

You, how do you do it? All, I think, is my follow up. I mean, is it like when you were younger, where you were like I want to have a million degrees and I want to do these things Like how did you know what was your path to getting? 

0:06:30 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

here. Oh my gosh, I wish so. I've always wanted to help people. I used to want to be an OB and deliver babies, and then I realized I didn't have enough of the skill set to distance myself away from, like if somebody lost a pregnancy or lost a child I was like that would wreck me, I would never go back to work and I wanted to do gender affirmation surgeries. 

I found out about doctors beyond borders and I wanted to be the doctor that went around the world and help people be all in themselves and give them body euphoria. And then I realized I'd have to go into plastics. 

0:07:09 - Danielle Bezalel

Oh and. 

0:07:10 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

I liked plastics, at least in the United States of America where I live. Basically tell fat black fems that were ugly and I couldn't. I couldn't buy into that. I couldn't buy into that system. I'm the type of person that I'm like. What's wrong with your nose? Can you breathe? You can breathe. I don't see any reason to change your nose. 

Yeah, totally. So I was like, huh, that's healing from the inside out. So after completing all of my pre med recs at college, after getting a bachelor's degree in physics, a minor in math, I decided I was going to be a therapist. Well, specifically for sex. 

0:07:52 - Danielle Bezalel

Whoa so big 180. 

0:07:54 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fun sciences. I spent a lot of time in labs that I didn't spend, apparently. 

0:08:01 - Danielle Bezalel

That sounds true. Did you find it challenging or did you really enjoy the science in math? What was your kind of disposition towards it? 

0:08:09 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh. So physics is the easiest thing for me and I kind of actually see therapy like that. Now you have this big, long, complex problem with all of these pieces and then you have to go find the pieces to fit in to make it a lot simpler. And so I think people are the same way. People want to come with these big, huge, compLexx problems and you take it piece by piece and you solve it down and it becomes really basic. So I do see a mirror in them. But yep, I did like the sciences, at least physics. Bio sucked. It was horrible. 

0:08:42 - Danielle Bezalel

Sounds very. I mean, all I've heard is that Ochem is kind of like the worst thing in the world. That's all I know. I was not a science gal in college so couldn't tell you Couldn't be me. But okay, so we're really lucky again. I may say again lucky to have you here today, because we're going to do a lot of talking about maintaining relationships in this episode. And let me tell you why I really want to talk about that. 

I feel like romcoms always cover the meet cute nights of the couple and maybe some of their story, but they really don't show the challenges, the deep conversations, laughs, intimacy, awkwardness and all of the work that is required to keep a relationship healthy and spicy. 

And even anecdotally, when we're dating someone new, that's all our friends want to hear about, right, like how is the date, what's up, what do you like, what are you not like? And then once we kind of have committed to somebody for talking specifically about monogamous relationships, there's not really more check-ins about that. It's kind of just like assuming that everything is fine or we don't really talk about our maintenance that much, unless there's a huge problem where someone's like, oh, we're going to break up and then people want to know about it. Right, they're there for the drama and you're known as the couple's clinician, which I really love not branding, by the way. Very smart, very cool, but I would love to get into a few things with you about this. So first I want to talk about maybe the most common things in your experience that couples have challenges about, and if there's any advice that you have for couples to kind of work on these things or to communicate better with one another, we'll start there. 

0:10:38 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh my gosh, absolutely so, exactly what you said, right, it's this we meet, let's learn about each other. If you're my friend's group, we actually have a setup with our friends where we actually do a quiz with the new person to see if they're actually compatible and if they don't, subject to it, it's an instant no from the friend group. But all, all couples 98% of them that come to me in my practice over the years come for communication and we're podcasting. So you can't see I'm using quotation marks, because everybody's like we can't communicate well and when I get into it I'm like you heard what they said, you just didn't like it. Okay, that's not a communication issue. You didn't like what they said, you understood it, you understood where they're coming from, you understand why they're frustrated. That's not a communication issue. 

When I usually boil down and this is my advice get past the communication it's typically a vulnerability issue. I don't feel safe enough to tell you my honest, honest truth, right, I can't be vulnerable with you to say that you know that when you're coming home late, I'm actually scared that you've abandoned me. I don't say that. So I say oh well, you must not care, because you ain't even said a text message Like someone's phone died huh, exactly right. So we use snarky sarcasm. We get that oh, you can't sleep next to me. You four to the streets, go be in the streets, right? So we do that. We do that passive regression because there's a difference between truth and honesty, and so people have a really hard time being honest, because it requires a level of vulnerability that isn't always safe, and isn't always accessible. 

0:12:33 - Danielle Bezalel

So how do we feel more comfortable being vulnerable? Is it like a whole thing? Because, like, you need trust, you need time, you need honesty. Is it like a puzzle, like a jigsaw puzzle? What are we? What are we working with here? 

0:12:47 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Why I think some people have stronger foundations than others. Given history and trauma and survivability and past relationships, I'm also one of the people that holds that relationships don't have to be hard, loverships don't have to be hard. I don't, and so I will say this as a person who's been with my lover for oh it's not my job to keep track so I'm gonna say like almost 10 years we've been together. He keeps track of how long we've been together and likes our wedding dates. 

Yeah, don't care, but we've argued once and it was over a vacuum, one time in 10 years, one time. And it was over a vacuum. Okay, because I wasn't wearing headphones while we were vacuuming. And I was so confused. I was like I've been alive for 30 plus years, why would I need headphones while I'm vacuuming? I've never worn headphones for my vacuuming and I can hear better than you. And he was so frustrated he put his hands on his hips and took a deep breath and I'm like so you're frustrated, but I don't understand. And so he had to walk away and come back Because he was like you just need to put the headphones on, like I don't get it. While you were vacuuming, while I was vacuuming Very strange. He wanted to protect my hearing because apparently this vacuum. That's why I thought, maybe, okay, that's what goes at a higher decibel. 

0:14:11 - Danielle Bezalel

Okay, so maybe it's your plugs Like, yeah, what yeah? 

0:14:14 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

like what's going on. They were noise canceling headphones. 

0:14:17 - Danielle Bezalel

Oh, noise canceling Okay so he really was concerned for you. 

0:14:21 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Yes, yes, and it was very sweet and I'm like well, without the full context of the picture, it doesn't make sense for me to wear headphones using a vacuum. And he's like I get that now and so that was our disagreement. That's the only time. That is the only time Now don't worry, we've had hard conversations yes. 

I was gonna say could you differentiate, right, right, I didn't like that this happened. And so when I say something like this really frustrated me or this bothered me, or I felt really uncared for, he's like I'm so sorry, you're absolutely right, I can shift that. Or if he's like, babe, I need this to be different, I'm like I dropped the ball, my bad. Let's figure out how it can be different, because I need help to make this different, right, and that's kind of how we function, because there's never a war between us. This is your person. You have built trust with this person. I tell all lovers when you first meet snorkel, you're going to go right below the surface, right, oh, I see, I see. 

Right below the surface to get to know that person. You don't want to deep dive or not scuba diving on the first three dates. Okay, people are like, give me a social security number. Have you ever had services Like, who is your mama? Like we're not doing that. I need to know. If you're, I can trust you. So if I light up about cosplaying at BlurredCon and you roll your eyes and you're dismissive, you're probably not the person for me, right Cause I just let you know a little bit about me. That really excites me and it also didn't excite you. My excitement didn't excite you. You weren't excited about the same thing. So now I'm like will you support me when I have to spend hours on my costume or will you be frustrated with me? 

0:16:06 - Danielle Bezalel

Very specific example. Is that? Is that personal? Is it a personal example? 

0:16:10 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh no, we cosplay. I have a whole like there's a decade worth of plans to cosplay as an entire family, oh my. 

0:16:17 - Danielle Bezalel

God, that's so cute. 

0:16:19 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

I'm not really into this I'm really into that I might get them in tights this year, I might. 

0:16:26 - Danielle Bezalel

Fantastic, truly fantastic. All right, so clearly you have a very healthy relationship, one that we all strive for. I think I'll speak for myself. I'm wondering if you could talk about other folks who come and see you and who are, you know, maybe really happy together. But do get into it, you know, have hard conversations, do have disagreements. Maybe there are some arguments. What are folks kind of like? You know, what are some like? Like you said, they're not maybe at war with each other, but like what are some things tangentially that come up for couples that they have a hard time with sometimes? 

0:17:08 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh my gosh, it's all right. So it's that we're not spending enough time together, our sex isn't great, or we're not having enough sex. Typically it's a hobby. So sometimes one person's feeling neglected because somebody's out doing whatever playing video games, out with their friends, not taking care of home enough, parenting and how people's parents become very, very big. They're like well, you let them do this or you're going to raise them this way, and we can't agree. 

And then there's also just power dynamics in a relationship. One person feels like another person should be more submissive. Another person's feeling oppressed in a relationship. So we come to a lot of different ways and it's how they communicate. So in one communication one person gets really defensive and I know that's a big trigger word nowadays. Everybody's like you're just being defensive. It's like I just said a sentence and defensiveness always escalates conflict. As soon as somebody says I'm feeling attacked or they perceive being attacked, that defensiveness is going to make that conflict more intense every single time. So we have a lot of that floating around. And then couples are like should we be together? And they start to doubt their choice in choosing a lover. 

0:18:30 - Danielle Bezalel

And I feel like it is really tough to know. Okay, let me give some context. I feel like I'm at a place right now where I'm 30 years old, right, and so are a lot of my friends who have been in long term relationships. There are some marriages that are happening. I've personally been with my partner for seven years. We recently got engaged, we're getting married next year, so there's like that kind of path. And then there are some of my friends who are just starting to break up with their long term partners who like? 

had these plans and who were really looking forward to that, and that was their person. And it's just like it feels very intense when there is this clear line for some people like you did this or I feel this way and therefore we're not a right fit anymore. But how do you navigate? Or like how do you recommend couples navigate that gray area where maybe they're like how do we know if we want to keep investing in each other or not? We don't really talk about this gray area either, I feel. 

0:19:43 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

No, and so that's often when I see people in my office. Right, they've tried it on their own for a while. They might have gone to church and got counseling or whatever religious thing they're into, and then they're realizing like it's not exactly working. Maybe we need a professional. And so what I usually have lovers do is I have them table breaking up and they decide on the timeframe three months, six months, two months, whatever it is. Two months is not really enough time to do a lot of work, but three to six months is what I say. I say everybody is dedicated to this relationship for the next three to six months. 

Breaking up is not an option. One to alleviate fear that one person is going to be left, and so sometimes people do really strange things out of fear. Right, I'm going to try and do everything I can to keep you. I'm going to try everything I can to prove, to have you prove that you care for me. So that can be a really dangerous area to be in, because people can start to feel desperate. So I'm going to alleviate that. I want to get that off the table. 

The other thing is what would it be like to be broken up? What would your life be like? Would you miss this other person? Would a huge gap be unfulfilled, what would that be like? And so we practice some gratitude, we learn how to communicate, we get all of the secrets out of the way, because sometimes people are keeping secrets. We talk about what's been lost, so sometimes people are like we had to spend all of our time together during COVID and I saw your shitty draws and that was a turnoff, and I just can't get that out of my mind, right? So no, I don't want to have sex with you and you want to break up with me because I don't want to have sex with you. 

But I am so turned off, and so those are things that we have to parse out typically in therapy. And it helps when you have a third party, because now the other person isn't an enemy. But I get to treat you as a team, because my job is your relationship. I got to take care of the relationship between you two, and you all have been actively harming it. So how do I help you heal it instead? 

0:21:47 - Danielle Bezalel

Yeah, it's so interesting because, I mean, I'm sure you have all the data and all the information on this as a couple therapists, but I feel like for me, as like a Person whose parents got divorced at a very young age like, obviously, what was modeled or not modeled for us does inherently in some capacity impact the way in which that we see our relationships and I like, how do people like break that cycle if they were kind of not given the proper Models for what a healthy relationship looks like? 

0:22:27 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh my gosh, that's one of my favorite questions and assessments. I say who are your favorite relationship role models? Hmm, and it is scary when I tell you I'm scared. It is scary how many people like me don't have any. I look at the Cosby show or family matters or some other sitcom about a TV family and their relationship and I'm like, wow, but I mean it's sad there's no one they could look to and they're really trying to figure it out for themselves. And even with your parents, right, so you, they divorced very, very early and sometimes divorce is the answer for folks and for families. And you saw a model of what you didn't want, right, you're like, oh, I don't know if I want this for myself, and so you figured out that piece of it, which is great because you're not starting from scratch. That's right, that's true. 

0:23:27 - Danielle Bezalel

Yeah, and I'm sure I don't know if other folks feel this as well, other Kids of divorced parents but I kind of, when I was a kid, made a promise to myself of like I'm not gonna Marry someone unless I've been with them. I chose an arbiter, not that arbitrary, but kind of like five years. Like I want to be with someone for at least five years before I commit to them, like blah, blah, blah. And no surprise, my partner and I've been together for seven years. We're getting married, like very close to our eight year anniversary and I wonder if I just like had that in the back of my head or you know, like because we I Don't know I think like marriage is something really interesting that I think, like my generation of peers are Thinking about more than ever and we're getting married later than our parents did. 

But with the stats of like 50% of marriages and in divorce, it's really Fascinating to me that we're, as a society, kind of putting that start aside and choosing still to go for it and to be in that Non-div. No one usually, I think, gets married with the aim of getting divorced. I mean, maybe I, maybe some, but most people don't. And so what do you think about that, about like this kind of big, scary stat out there and how we kind of still are Romantics, like why are we still doing this? 

0:24:56 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Basically, well, I think we love love, right, I mean, and that's why I do my work. I love love. I love to be able to see that two people at 100%, on their best days, we come together and make something beautiful and everybody wants to be wanted. That's another thing. Like nobody's walking around, like I don't want anybody to want me, like no, everybody wants to be wanted. The 50% stat I'm actually really happy about, because At least in my community is it like? Oh, you know, people don't get married and stay married, like your grandma and grandpa. And I'm like, well, grandma couldn't buy a house by herself, right? Grandma couldn't have a credit card, right? Songs like Papa was a rolling stone because grandma couldn't leave. That's why, right, she was there with eight kids. 

0:25:44 - Danielle Bezalel

Dude, my grandma literally had eight kids, like my dad is one of eight. 

0:25:51 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Right. So the options for folks back then were vastly different than they are now, and so if 50% of marriages are ending, that means 50% of people are finding out that they don't want to be in this relationship for the rest of their lives. They don't have to sacrifice themselves for the rest of their lives, right? So I'm hoping these people can get to some type of happiness, and I love the fact that we're still taking leaps of faith. It's a faith that we can be together, that we can make this work. But I tell people every day you're supposed to feel chosen by your lover every single day, and you're supposed to choose your liver every day. How are you doing that? What does that look like today? 

0:26:37 - Danielle Bezalel

Speaking of you saying everyone wants to be wanted, let's transition to how you work with couples to keep things intimate and fun. Because in the bedroom specifically right. Because I feel like when I get questions from listeners around like how do I strengthen my relationship, how do I keep things spicy in the bedroom, how do I keep my partner excited or how do I keep myself excited, and I feel like, for those of us who do have a healthy sexual appetite, we desire sex with ourselves and with our partner. When that part is good, the rest can fall into place and vice versa, like when you're feeling good and connected out of the bedroom, then usually intimacy in the bedroom feels that much better. 

So I'm wondering, like what are some kind of common tools and practices that you chat with couples about in this arena? 

0:30:40 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Oh, I love this, so something, and it typically lives on my Instagram. It's called Naked Homework, so I have all my lovers do some version of Naked Homework assignments. 

It involves being naked and it's homework, so you have to do it at home. Nobody ever gets naked in front of me, but one of my favorite, favorite, favorite Naked Homeworks is to have people front back, however top or bottom, so you have to be naked in whatever that vicinity is. You will do the whole body eventually, but it is a gratitude body scan. So your lover and you will take turns saying different parts of the body that you're grateful for. So it could be like I'm so grateful for your eyes because they tell me exactly how much you love me every time I look at you. And then they have to show that body part some physical affection. Whatever it is. It's physical affection because so often we're only touching for sex. We forget that you can just touch for closeness, you can touch just to release good endorphins. You can hug just because it feels comfortable and just because it's pleasure. So removing the intercourse pressure from pleasure and what that looks like alleviates so much because people aren't always down for sex, or I will say penetrative intercourse, because sex can be anything. 

When's the last time you just made out on the couch? Because it was a commercial break, right, you had some ads during your Hulu and you're like, let's just make out, let's hope the kids don't catch us, right, like fun times. Maybe your body is in a postpartum body so you can't really. You're not really feeling like your stuff is leaking everywhere. You just birthed something, right, you're in a diaper, but that is. I mean, you can't get sensual kisses on your back and that just feels really nice. So I think that we have to take out the pressure that comes with physical touch and then typically be right, giving people permission and be like, oh, masturbate, enjoy that. There's been this idea that because you're in a couplehood or a lovership, that you can't masturbate and self-please anymore. That's like this weird portrayal is how it's perspex like no, go handle your stuff and go into bed and maybe I don't want to masturbate right next to me because I'm asleep. 

Maybe it's loud, right, Right? Don't let stuff land on me, right? Do what you need to do. 

0:33:07 - Danielle Bezalel

Half the years will do. 

0:33:08 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

I don't know what to do. Go, do what you want. So, permission that you're still a sexual being outside of your lover, and when you don't want to necessarily have that intercourse and interaction, there are other ways that you still build intimacy with physicality. 

0:33:25 - Danielle Bezalel

Yes, yeah, absolutely. I really like the central back kisses. That sounds really nice. I'm gonna go tell my partner that that sounds great after this call. Why do you think that, generally speaking, when it comes to relationships, stuff, why do we not really talk about everyday things with our friends and family? Like back to that thing where, like, if it's the beginning, people want to hear about it, if it's the end, people want to hear about it. But like everything in between at least I find generally in a seven year partnership it is not as common for me to get questions from friends or family that's like how are you and David like making each other happy? Like how are you two making each other laugh? You know, like things that are all about the maintenance and about the everydayness but we don't really it's not normalized to talk about. 

0:34:27 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Yeah, I think that's such an important question because we do see the beginning and we do see, or we see, the problems. Right, you only talk to your friend group, your mom, whatever, whatever, when there's a problem and then we see the breakup. So we don't see the oh my gosh. You know, my lover brought home chicken egg rolls from my favorite place today. That was so nice. 

We don't have that gratitude as shown as much in public spheres and I think part of it is because we tend to build a bubble of protection around our relationships and that's what we've been taught right, mind your business, your everyday, as long as things aren't going wrong isn't my business, right, right, so there is that level of protection, but I think in that level of protection and that bubble of protection, we lose that the monotony of relationships can still be content and happy. There's not a bunch of rah-rah, it's not a bunch of sadness, it's not even isolation or abuse. It's just like, look, we're existing as simple humans outside of this honeymoon phase and we're still okay, we're still good. We don't get to see a lot of that because of that protection bubble. 

0:35:39 - Danielle Bezalel

Right and I feel like what you said, this honeymoon phase right At least when I've been to therapy in the past and like books that I've read about the fact that there are, or there can be, kind of these seasons right Of like things are going really well, we're really connected, and then maybe there is like a mental health thing going on for somebody and that impacts something, or maybe there's work stress and that impacts something. 

Or maybe you didn't get to work out as much as you wanted to and that impacts something. You know, there's like there are always kind of like little things that can kind of lead to little tiffs for a couple of weeks at a time and then maybe you're you know, it really is a roller coaster ride and I've only learned that by being in a healthy long-term relationship. Just to see, like, how many moments and chapters there are with somebody else. And do you feel like, when you chat with couples, is there kind of this question around that roller coaster? Or like, if people do kind of get in hard conversations, do they maybe feel like, oh, we shouldn't be getting in these, it should be easier, or what kind of what do you say around that? 

0:36:53 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Yeah, so that's actually really important. John Gottman and Julie Gottman came up with this whole Gottman method. Right, they say about 69% of conflict is not resolvable. So the majority of the conflict you have actually isn't resolvable. 

0:37:09 - Danielle Bezalel

We're both gonna have your own opinions. 

0:37:11 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Right, you're both gonna have and you might not meet. And that's when you're like, oh, we'll just agree to disagree. But there's another model that says, when you look at conflict, you have to look at it as an opportunity for closeness versus a threat. Right, so if you're fighting and it feels like a threat to the relationship or a threat to your personhood, you're gonna end up in a negative space. Verses when you have conflict, you use it as an opportunity to learn more. Like I don't see this that way. How did you get here? Tell me more, like what's your thought process, and not in a condescending way. 

0:37:52 - Danielle Bezalel

Right, but I'm really genuine, yes, curious. 

0:37:55 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

And so what I see, more so from the lovers that I do see, is the oh my gosh, we're arguing again and I never wanna argue. And here's the thing you can argue to your face. That's absolutely fine. It's how you argue, right, cause I told you you're not going to war in your relationship. You're not going to war against this person. So when you're arguing, are you fighting below the belt? Are you calling them by their name? Are you picking apart the intrinsic person they are? Is that what you're criticizing? Because that's below the belt, that's dangerous. Are you acting morally superior to them? That's fighting below the belt. That will end your relationship. That will cause devastation and harm, but a disagreement won't. It's really how you fight. 

0:38:45 - Danielle Bezalel

Yeah, you're hitting on like the crux of this for me, which is we're really not first of all in sex ed in school, as you very well know, cause you're a sex educator we're not taught jack shit about any of this stuff, let alone like a healthy relationship, right, because we maybe will learn about consent in a very basic form if we're lucky. But beyond that, right, there's all of these pieces to it like how do we argue healthily? How do we disagree healthily? How do we talk about really, really hard shit that's gonna come up and do it in a way that feels respectful? And if we're not able to in that moment, like, what tool do we need to use to come back to this later? Like we're kind of we're not really taught about any of that, and so, and again, like it's not like our parents or at least mine for sure didn't teach me. Like here's what might happen when you're dating someone in here, and it's okay if X, y and Z you know. Like no one taught me that no. 

So it's just this really big mystery I find. And you know, I have some friends who date people for a couple of months and they're like, oh, this feels really hard or we're disagreeing about this thing, like I think we should just call it. And often my response even though I'm not a trained therapist but just, you know, being someone who kind of has experience in a long-term relationship with chapters and with seasons and whatever I'm like keep going, like keep you know, keep trying to figure out. You know, is there enough there where both of you are happy and like feeling fulfilled, like this one little thing shouldn't break it. 

0:40:31 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

You know Right, right, and that's the. I think that's the piece of it. People often do a lot of self-sacrificing to be the good partner and so, yeah, you guys got into this TIF, right, Can we resolve it? And I will even say, after people see me, you're still gonna get into arguments and TIFs. It's how you reconnect afterwards that's gonna be most important. So my goal is, instead of it taking a week, for you all to come back together and feel close again, can we get it to three days? Can we get it to two days? Right, are we going after each other's jugular or are we saying I need some space? And that's my goal is to get them to say I need some space to be able to identify within themselves. 

Because, you have to remember, a lot of people don't have the permission to feel all their feelings. They've been sacrificing themselves, they build resentment, then they take it out on their partner and what we do see and what you'll start to see, right, so you're just entering the 30s, so now everybody's getting married, people start having kids, and then people also start breaking up, right, so that's how, oh, and also people start getting sick. So that's what's happening around, like this age range, and then, and I would say like the 35 to 40 age range, there's more divorce. There's people that wait longer to have babies. Right, people are also getting sick and their parents are getting sick. And then people who break up are realizing that they sacrificed all of themselves for their family. Right, they're like I don't know who I am outside of Mark's girlfriend. I don't know who I am outside of Susan's mom. Right, I've been their parent for so long, I've been their partner for so long. I never got to do any of the things I wanted, right. 

And people disappear into these roles, right, we talk about gender roles in sex at all the time. They disappear into these roles, and it doesn't matter your gender, whatever role you think you're supposed to be fulfilling, and if you think you're supposed to fulfill them all, because we were never taught what was good for us and we never were taught to claim what was good for us. So now they're like I don't even know what I like anymore. I used to like roller skating. I haven't been on skates in years, I don't know. And they lose themselves. I mean, how do you partner and show up with someone when you've lost yourself? What does that look like? 

0:43:00 - Danielle Bezalel

That's a big question. I'm sure that people come to these conclusions at different points, and maybe that's also part of why they do wanna end it in their partnership, because they're maybe realizing like I deserve to be myself and I'm not able to do that, which is really tricky. 

0:43:27 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Exactly. And then also, who is your partner, levin? Are they just loving a reflection of themselves, which gives way to maybe some narcissism? But like, if you're not showing up in your true, authentic self, how do they get to love? 

0:43:43 - Danielle Bezalel

you. You're breaking my brain in a good way here, in a very good way, so shifting gears a little bit, because we haven't super talked about the sex ed part of your career yet, and I have a couple of questions there before we let you go. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about being a sex positive parent, because I know there are some people who listen to this show who are parents and who maybe have intentions to make their child or children feel whole in their gender identity or their body or their relationships, and parents are also very busy and may not have the tools or the resources or know how to have the conversation, and so I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how parents can be continuous advocates for their kids when it comes to their sexual health. 

0:44:44 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Absolutely so great questions. I think we've been actually getting at the sexuality piece of my job right, because relationships and intimacy are all part of sexuality and as parents, we're modeling for our children all the time, even when we don't mean to right. So not only remodeling the relationships that we're in romantically or non-romantically, we're modeling how we feel in our bodies, right? So if you're saying that's something a parent needs to say, one of my parents used to say, oh, I feel like two ton tilly today, right, about her size, and that's what she would say about herself and it was negative. So I was like, huh, okay, so fatness is not valued, and I learned that. I learned the language later, but I learned the value early on. So we're all modeling sex positivity and sex positivity. 

People always get wrong. They think we just tell people to go out and have as much sex, as freaky as possible, as much as possible, which is not what it means. Sex positivity is really placing your values and what's important for you as a parent and how you're disseminating it to your child so that they can be raised with education to navigate situations and to be able to be their true, authentic selves safely. That's what we want. We want our kids to be safe. 

So sex positive parenting we gotta start where we are. Maybe you didn't teach your kids the correct anatomical names, okay, so that's where you start. Maybe there's some sexual shame that you have that you've passed on to your child and so you gotta do some of that self work first. Right, if you were shamed for being sexually promiscuous, you know where that comes from now, because you've listened to this podcast. You have more information, you've read some stuff. But being a sex positive parent just means that you're creating a safer space for your children to come to and seek out knowledge, and ideally you're the first stop. And if you cannot be the first stop because you have your own trauma, you might be in your own survivorship. You just might not know. You know and they know where they can go to get that information that is still aligned with your values. 

0:46:59 - Danielle Bezalel

Yeah, I feel like this idea of parents not really unpacking their own trauma is a really big one, because therapy wasn't really popular when Parents were kids, depending on how when my parents were kids, for sure, like parents who are in there, like 50, 60, 70s. I don't think it's as common and I think it's really challenging. But I'm hoping that with the internet and with so many podcasts and tools and resources, there. 

There are so many people out there, like you said, who can, who can help. Let's talk about the hashtag shame free sex ed. What does that mean to you and where do you hope to see sex ed in the? 

0:47:46 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

future. Oh my gosh, so big questions. Let's go for it. So shame. Free sex ed means I am able to access information Without feeling bad about myself and unlovable. Right, because a lot of us grew up with questions that we'd ask that, questions like why are you asking that? What happened? You're dirty, you're bad, you're a slut, you're a whore, or you're gonna grow up to be a whore? It's like, um, this is just how my body is growing. I just had a question. 

0:48:18 - Danielle Bezalel

Right, right, right, pretty innocent. 

0:48:20 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Right and we, instead, we went to like, go find it somewhere else and those somewhere else. Places weren't always safe. Many of us, many of us, had a chat room love affair with somebody on the other end of an internet, absolutely dialing up that on a man. 

Yes, MTV chat rooms? Oh boy, right. And so our kids are doing the same. But our kids are much more accessible via the web than we were. Right with video streaming and sexting and pictures and Location and dropping pins. People can access our kids much easier than they might have been able to access us. So shame. Free sex said just means that I'm gonna teach you and not shame you. I'm gonna give you the information. My friend, Brittany Broder, smith plazas. Are you gonna be a vault or you're gonna be a food pantry? Hmm, right, are you locking information away until they get the right code or the right age or whatever? Or can you be a food pantry open to everybody? They can come in, they can take what they need and leave the rest? 

0:49:23 - Danielle Bezalel

I Like to try and be a food pantry? 

0:49:28 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Yeah, right, and then? 

0:49:30 - Danielle Bezalel

oh, go ahead. 

I was just gonna say it can be hard and it could take a few tries and that's okay, as long as you tell your Kid or whoever you're trying to get that information to like, hey, I might have messed up there. I'm gonna try again and let's see if I can get it right the second time around. Because kids appreciate and young people and people of all ages really appreciate honesty everybody and yeah and just appreciate Acknowledgement of you know you're trying your best and if you could really like be kind and not judgmental and just try your best. I think that's what all people really want. 

0:50:09 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Absolutely. And also you can normally say I don't know. Now, I grew up in the perfectionistic area. Right, we had to be perfect, as we were never gonna get to college, we were just gonna die. But that being said, and with growing up as a series of perfectionists, right, I don't know, wasn't something we were allowed to say and so I don't? I don't actually know the answer to that. Let me research it and figure it out so I can know how to tell you. Or I don't know how to tell you in a way that you're gonna understand, so let me talk to, like you know, tt Lexx and see how I can tell you in a way that you'll understand. Or or tell me what you know and maybe I can fill in the gaps and you're not in trouble for knowing. Hmm, right, because sometimes we parent from fear, specifically around sexuality, and when we parent from fear, oftentimes that leads to consequences and punitive punishments, even when we don't intend it to be. 

0:51:02 - Danielle Bezalel

Hmm totally yeah, and how much better of a world would it be if all people Just had access to information and education that made them feel good instead of bad about their bodies and their lives and their relationships and their health and their identities and Everything that exactly, exactly. 

0:51:28 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

And then your other question was the future of the field. Yes, so in full disclosure, I am a board member for One of the oldest credentialing sexuality education organizations and has a long title, so it's the American Association for sexuality educators, counselors and therapists. I got it a sect, a sect for short. So I Will be in. I'm the incoming president. I'm gonna be the first black woman president of the organization. 

0:52:02 - Danielle Bezalel

Holy shit, congratulations, thank you. Oh my god, you're breaking bounds here. Wow, look. 

0:52:11 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

And so my dream for the field is Access for all of those educators that want to be there, that don't hold a college degree, that that maybe got their education elsewhere somehow, is really to open up the gates, because I Didn't see people that did this work, that looked like me in my field Back, you know, 15 years ago when I entered. So I want to be able to be like hey, we welcome any and all doing the good work and Giving them a strong foundational basis to ensure that that good work continues, because, at the end of the day, we really do help people and that is the highlight of my job. Getting the Added baby announcements or the engagement invites that I can't go to y'all, it's a conflict of interest. 

0:53:03 - Danielle Bezalel

I can't go. 

0:53:06 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Got one to like Jamaica. It's like Go yeah, love this couple. 

I'd love to go to your wedding, oh, oh y'all yeah, right so we get that information or I get the parent that says because of this video I was able to talk to my kid and I'm like I'm so proud of you. All right, that's one less kid that doesn't have somebody to talk to. So I would love for people to put me at a job. If I had never had to do therapy again because everybody was fine, I would love it. So that's that's your, that's your mission. Put me out of work, please. 

0:53:40 - Danielle Bezalel

You heard it here first: Dr. Lexx is wanting to go out of work, because now I'm just kidding. Yeah, that would be. That would be really special. But You're so cool and fun and it's been so great talking to you, and why don't you go ahead and share where Listeners can find you and learn more about your work and get access to your content? 

0:54:01 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Absolutely so. Again, fangirl moment. I love being here, but I am Dr. Lexx, so Lexx LE-X-X. Do see Some. Lexx sex doc L-e X X, se X. Do see on all platforms. And I'm Lexx sex doc comm so you can subscribe to my newsletter. I don't send them out super frequently, but when things are happening or when there's new products out or when I have sales on my intimacy cards or my intimacy workbook, you can definitely get those same with the webinars. There's how to talk to kids about sex and sexting, there's talking about what the developmental behaviors that you need to see in children are, and then just my couples workshops. 

0:54:58 - Danielle Bezalel

Love it Well. Thank you so much, Dr. Lexx, for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure, privilege chatting with you and, yeah, thank you for being here. 

0:55:08 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

I'm definitely sending you these relationship cards. So, yep, we're gonna, I'm gonna get your mail in address and I'm sending you a deck so you can practice with your lover. 

0:55:19 - Danielle Bezalel

Oh, my god, can't wait. Thank you so so much. 

0:55:23 - Dr. Lexx Brown James

Most welcome.