CURIOUS SEX ED: BDSM AND SEXUAL KINK
Danielle Bezalel (she/her):
Good afternoon, Mariah. How are you today?
Mariah Caudillo (she/her)::
I'm doing great. How are you?
Danielle Bezalel:
Pretty good, you know, what's going on? Busy, but really, really happy to be back for another fucking sick-ass episode.
Mariah:
Yes, oh my gosh, the spring is such a busy time. I'm so busy. Every single weekend I have something to do. But not too busy for this.
Danielle Bezalel:
Not too busy for this amazing podcast that we've created together.
Mariah:
Yes.
Danielle Bezalel:
And thank you all so much for listening to the first episode. We got some amazing feedback and a lot of people were excited about us talking about porn addiction, which we're not surprised by. A lot of people are interested in porn. So that's exactly why we chose that question. So thank you. Thank you to that listener and to that writer who wrote in. And I'm fucking excited about today's episode, all about BDSM and sexual kink. And that's kind of the overarching topic. But the question that someone wrote in is this. They said, I'm just getting started with my BDSM and sexual kink journey. Where do I begin? And what does advanced BDSM look like? So it's kind of a two parter here, where it's
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
like, what is it? Or I guess it's a three parter. It's like, what
Mariah:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
is this thing?
Mariah:
there's a lot
Danielle Bezalel:
Right? That's. that it's a run on sentence to know I'm just kidding.
Mariah:
Yeah
Danielle Bezalel:
It was in multiple sentences. But you know, it's a three parter, right? Because it's like, what is this thing aka BDSM and sexual kink? How do I get started if I'm a novice if I'm a beginner?
Mariah:
Uh huh.
Danielle Bezalel:
And one day if I want to advance to the advanced BDSM category, what does that look like? And so we're going to try our best
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
to get through a lot of this in, you know, the short time that we have together, but I'm very excited nonetheless.
Mariah:
I'm intimidated by this question to
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah,
Mariah:
be honest, but
Danielle Bezalel:
totally fair.
Mariah:
we will get into it. We just want to shout out our bestie crew. This is just a reminder, if you want to join our bestie crew and want to access Curious Sex Ed after episode three, go to buymeacoffee.com slash curious sex ed to learn more. Also we have a link to our anonymous question box where you can write in some anonymous sex ed questions and we may answer it here. So... That is buymeacoffee.com slash curioussexed.
Danielle Bezalel:
Love it so much. And we already have a couple folks who have written in like
Mariah:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
asking a little bit about what we're really doing here. And I'm just excited to say like, this is a new project, we're figuring it out as we go. You know,
Mariah:
Yep.
Danielle Bezalel:
our buy me a coffee is kind of this really fun new platform that we found that we just really have been enjoying. So thank you to folks who have tipped us with a coffee and to folks who are considering joining. We promise that the episodes that we have for you are very exciting. chock full of personal stories and a lot of really really good stuff. And before we even go on in this episode, we want to make a little note here that we are not kink and BDSM educators. I
Mariah:
Correct.
Danielle Bezalel:
repeat, we are not kink and BDSM educators. We are sex educators.
Mariah:
We will mention some though, we'll
Danielle Bezalel:
We
Mariah:
mention
Danielle Bezalel:
will.
Mariah:
some.
Danielle Bezalel:
We sure will. And, you know, we're going to go through a beginner's guide to kink and BDSM. And again, at the end, we'll really share kink and BDSM educators who are experienced, who we trust, who we really recommend that you check out. But we really wanna make that clear before we get started. And again, we have this formula that we're working with here. We're in the beginning of every episode. We're gonna talk about our first impressions and our journey coming to this topic. And so the question that we wanna answer first is like, what were our first impressions of sexual kink and BDSM? And how do they really differ comparing, you know, a hookup versus a long term partner or someone in between, or multiple partners? And what have we seen in the media, whether that be movies, TV shows and books, versus, you know, what actual play actually plays out in reality for us when it comes to sexual kink in BDSM. And then just another quick note here, because I posted something on my Instagram, kind of recently, all about the difference between sexual kink and
Mariah:
Mmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
a fetish. And someone, and I didn't use that phrase, I didn't say sexual kink, but I was referring to that.
Mariah:
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
And somebody mentions, hey, just so you know, there can be non-sexual kink.
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
And I really didn't even like think through that need for that disclaimer. And that person who said that is at the kink educator on Instagram, they reminded me, you know, non-sexual kinks exist and we should mention some of them.
Mariah:
Yeah, I think, is that Emerson Karsh? I think,
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, is that the
Mariah:
the
Danielle Bezalel:
same person? I think
Mariah:
Kate, yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
that's right.
Mariah:
Oh no, I learned everything. I learned everything's from Emerson. That's like anything I know about sexual kink and kink in general, which is great because I didn't know much before, so.
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally, yeah, and some of the ones that the kink educator mentioned are age play that doesn't involve sex, rope play, power dynamics, impact play, edge play, and there are lots more that are considered kink but not necessary to do with sex. So I thought it was really an important call out. And I also just wanna share briefly this idea of where I kind of came to my understanding of what. sexual kink and BDSM were.
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
And no surprise, I feel like everyone and their mother found out about this in mainstream media with 50 Shades of Grey. And I think
Mariah:
Yep.
Danielle Bezalel:
that, for better and worse, I think, I also read the series, of course, I think I was in college.
Mariah:
Hahaha
Danielle Bezalel:
And yes, it has some negative impacts, but I really feel like it got people talking about it, which was cool to see. Even SNL had a skit about it, about this Mother's Day, you're gonna wanna get your mom, a rumbling washing machine because she's like literally sitting on it watching
Mariah:
Hahaha
Danielle Bezalel:
50 Shades of Grey like implying that she's masturbating while reading. And I think that it was just an interesting look at like, yes, this is like, based on fucking Twilight and just kind of like really not
Mariah:
Hehehe
Danielle Bezalel:
an ideal version of this. But I think the fact that it opened up like a conversation for the Midwestern mom. is
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
really really something to applaud in that way. Even if some of the messaging was misogynistic or harmful or if it didn't feel like it related with people. I just appreciate it for what it was, which is a conversation starter.
Mariah:
Totally. Yeah, that is definitely... I relate to that a lot because my first impressions really didn't come until I was in college and 50 Shades of Grey does have something to do with that. But also porn, I know we just talked about porn, but honestly I think overall it kind of just demonstrated that sex doesn't just have to be penis in vagina, which you know, college was kind of the time where... I was thinking more freely for myself versus
Danielle Bezalel:
Right?
Mariah:
like my little hometown Christian kind of vibe. Like I was just a lot more open and kind of exploring my sexuality, getting to that place, you know? So I didn't know sex could be beyond penis and vagina. So porn actually has a lot to do with just broadening my horizons and kind of just demonstrating people experience pleasure. and intimacy in many different ways, and sometimes that can involve sexual kink and different, playing out different fantasies. And yeah, I am thankful for that. But also, 50 Shades of Grey did give me a different, not different perspective, but kind of, I don't know, just continued that idea, like, oh, this is different than what I had in mind.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah absolutely and clearly it's all millions and millions of copies right like people
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
people were interested in it and I think obviously there are so many better versions of it but I think it really did start something culturally for people.
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
And now we're going to get into the meat of this question right, which is really like what BDSM and sexual kink and I just want to name. Oh, school, oh dot school, I used to work there and love the team there. I'm very lucky to know folks who are brilliant sex educators at Oh school. And they wrote an amazing article that we will be basically using for this question to answer this question. So I just want to say thanks
Mariah:
Definitely.
Danielle Bezalel:
to Oh school and check out the episode description of this episode for the link to this article. and we'll make sure that you get that information. But Mariah, I'll let you take it away.
Mariah:
Yeah, yeah. So let's kind of start with what is BDSM? It's any consensual sexual activity involving bondage, discipline, dominance, and submission, and sadism, and masochism. There's all of the letters that fit with the words BDSM. It's basically practice that involves a power dynamic between partners where it's understood that one will have more power during sex than the other. Healthy BDSM requires that all partners have consented to the roles and they will play and understand the amount of power each person has.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah, absolutely. And I know you just read these, right? We read B, Bonnigen, Discipline, Dominance and Submission, Statism and Masochism. But I'm wondering, you know, like folks might be thinking, what does that actually mean in
Mariah:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
practice?
Mariah:
let's
Danielle Bezalel:
I know
Mariah:
break
Danielle Bezalel:
for,
Mariah:
it down.
Danielle Bezalel:
yeah, let's break it down. Because I know for me, whenever I see it, it feels very jumbled to me, and it's helpful to kind of really break it down into these different categories. So.
Mariah:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
And again, these are just some examples of the ways in which the people can experience these. So take with it what you will. If this is not your experience, that's totally cool. I'm sure your experience is great and it is inclusive of what feels good for you and or for your partner or partners. But anyway, enough with the disclaimers, let's get into it. So bondage and discipline refers to restraining and potentially punishing another person through certain mechanisms, including, but not limited to, handcuffs or rope tying, whipping or spanking or otherwise like physically controlling and impacting a partner. So that's bondage and discipline. Then when we think about power and kind of certain roles, that's really in the dominance and submission, right of like different roles that partners can take on during different types of sex and the power that each of these roles in the sexual relationship has. There are certainly people who enjoy both, who enjoy only one or the other, or maybe you just kind of feel neutral about this and you're not really interested in that. And then finally sadism reverts to the enjoyment of watching someone else experience pain, while masochism describes pleasure at feeling your own pain. So in the last episode when Mariah was talking about... If pain is your thing, if that's consensual, then that's your thing, right?
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
And that can have to do with sadism or masochism depending on who's experiencing the pain. So those are some examples there.
Mariah:
Yeah, thanks for breaking that down. That's
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah.
Mariah:
helpful. I know for me. I'm always like, yeah, I need to let me look this up
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Mariah:
Um, yeah, so let's talk about the difference between sexual kink and bdsm because they aren't the same and they're usually kind of grouped together Um as non-traditional types of sexual activity, which is true, right? Like it's under that umbrella of non-traditional Whatever, whatever that means
Danielle Bezalel:
Right.
Mariah:
So let's talk about the difference between sexual kink and BDSM because they often get kind of lumped together and sometimes people have a hard time kind of telling them apart. I know I do. So they're under this umbrella of non-traditional types of sexual activity. And the primary difference is that BDSM involves a power exchange. Well, sexual kink describes a broader category of sex that can but doesn't have to involve power dynamics. Some might even say BDSM is a type of kink or sexual kink.
Danielle Bezalel:
Right. Yeah, I know I completely agree with this idea of like, oh, sometimes it kind of gets lumped all in the same thing for me. But if you really
Mariah:
Mm-hmm
Danielle Bezalel:
just think of sexual kink as like a big roof, right? And then BDSM is just like an umbrella term under that roof, right?
Mariah:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
Because
Mariah:
yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
because even BDSM is an umbrella term in and of itself.
Mariah:
Totally. Yeah, that kind of like, sorry, I agree with that.
Danielle Bezalel:
I just really like the way you said that you're like, I just agree, which is, which is good.
Mariah:
Yes.
Danielle Bezalel:
Okay, let's keep it moving. I want to talk
Mariah:
Yeah,
Danielle Bezalel:
about
Mariah:
for
Danielle Bezalel:
some,
Mariah:
sure.
Danielle Bezalel:
some other types, right of kink and BDSM, right. And so
Mariah:
Mmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
this is specifically what we hear from this amazing article at Oh School, but this list of categories is basically infinite, right? Like it invites you to be creative, but we do wanna share what maybe are some common types, right, of
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
sexual kink and non-sexual kink. And so there's impact play, which involves using something like hands or an instrument to strike another person during sex. Group sex, you know, it is what it sounds like, it's group
Mariah:
Mm-hmm.
Danielle Bezalel:
sex. Multiple people at once, with maybe some varying power dynamics a la BDSM. There's role playing, which is having sex where certain partners are pretending to be other people or non-human creatures like a predator and its prey, or an animal and its owner, or people of radically different ages, like an adult and a baby. Some people might think, like, ooh, so weird. But at the same time, who are we to judge other people? And there are so many things that happen
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
to us throughout our lives that can impact the ways in which we enjoy certain kinds of kink play. Don't judge, just do your own thing. Mind your business, basically. Sensation play, right? Where one person is either intentionally deprived of certain senses or they're heightened. Basically, like if someone's using a blindfold or if they're using an ice cube or heat, like a temperature candle that melts, right? Like those are all kind of sensation play. And then these two are very interesting to me. Voyeurism, which involves sex where one or more partners are aroused by the act of watching other people. So it's kind
Mariah:
Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
of like live porn, right? And exhibitionism, so where one or more partners is aroused by the act of being watched. So it's like being an adult film star, right?
Mariah:
Yeah. Yeah.
Danielle Bezalel:
So I'm just intrigued by all of these. And if you're someone who's listening, who's like, hmm, I might wanna get. into this and learn a bit more. And so I'll send it over to Mariah for some final thoughts here.
Mariah:
Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, there's a lot of new things here, maybe for some people and things that might seem like, oh, that's interesting, maybe. But yeah, I think I definitely like encourage people to do their own research and really, you know, maybe consult supportive people or also educators who work in this specific field. But overall, I feel like media and sexuality can teach people. lot about themselves and their bodies and their like their desires and relationships. And there are a lot of like valuable life skills that people can kind of gain from these practices like and they can be applied to many different areas of our lives like communication, consent, learning out of set boundaries, being candid, being so honest about what you want and need and just like overall personal growth. And there's a lot of like, there's a lot of self-awareness that comes with that. And I feel like people who practice BDSM or sexual kink, like they, this is something that can lead to a lot of confidence and self-esteem and just like a deeper understanding of oneself, which I'm all about that. I love that. And some people, you know, this is how people kind of arrive to that place or this is an avenue for people to explore this about like, themselves. So I don't know,
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally.
Mariah:
I just, I really love that aspect of it. So I think if you're interested in learning more on social media specifically, here are just a few kink educators I like. We have Sunny Megatron, which is at Sunny Megatron on Instagram and TikTok, Emerson Karsh, which is at the Kink Educator on Instagram and Kink Academy, which is at Kink Academy on Instagram, Marla Stewart, which is at one Marla Stewart on Instagram and TikTok and Yaz, which is at Yaz the Human on Instagram and TikTok.
Danielle Bezalel:
amazing right thank you so much for exploring sexual kink and bdsm with me today i know that our listeners are equally as excited about this as i am.
Mariah:
Me too.