CURIOUS SEX ED: PORN ADDICTION

Danielle Bezalel (she/her):

Hello, hello.

Mariah Caudillo (she/her):

Hi!

Danielle Bezalel:

How you doing today?

Mariah:

I'm doing good. It is a cloudy Monday and I like the overcast weather. So I feel good.

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah, it's pretty cozy. I feel like I could go get maybe like a little glass of tea and I have some leftover pie in the fridge randomly.

Mariah:

Oh, that sounds so good.

Danielle Bezalel:

So

Mariah:

I just had coffee, a late

Danielle Bezalel:

oh,

Mariah:

morning coffee.

Danielle Bezalel:

I'm into that. Is there like a certain time where you have to stop drinking like caffeine in order to sleep? Or are you like, fuck it, it doesn't matter.

Mariah:

I used to have that like strict stop, like around three, but I don't know, I feel like it's worn off. So I just do whatever. I also have like a Diet Coke in the afternoon. So

Danielle Bezalel:

Okay, you're like

Mariah:

I

Danielle Bezalel:

caffeinated

Mariah:

don't think,

Danielle Bezalel:

up.

Mariah:

yeah, I don't think it affects me anymore.

Danielle Bezalel:

Okay,

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

respect, that's totally cool. I'm so excited that we're here today because it's our first episode together as Curious Sex Ed and we've been pals, colleagues for a little while now and I'm just so excited that we're doing a full on project together.

Mariah:

I know, I'm excited. This is my first ever podcast project. I mean, I've done like a couple of guest things, but yeah, it's scary.

Danielle Bezalel:

It's a little scary I think like knowing how much your audience and my audience really enjoy the education that we put forth and the fact that you know in these episodes were sharing a little bit about ourselves as well which I feel like is a little different than. Are you know our videos and our other content because it's really sharing education which also is

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

what we're doing here but I think that mix feels. a little vulnerable, maybe a little scary,

Mariah:

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

but kind of different and a unique way that we can kind of connect with people, which is cool.

Mariah:

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I feel like TikTok is a completely different kind of relationship. So this is going to be fun. I'm excited.

Danielle Bezalel:

I'm into it and yeah, why don't you go ahead and introduce like what is our first episode on today? And what was the question that someone wrote in?

Mariah:

Yeah, so today we're going to talk about porn addiction, my favorite topic.

Danielle Bezalel:

Amazing.

Mariah:

The question we got says, I'm worried about, or I'm worried I've been watching too much porn. Can I get addicted to porn? And if so, what do I do about it?

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah, I fucking love this question.

Mariah:

Me

Danielle Bezalel:

And

Mariah:

too.

Danielle Bezalel:

yeah, both of us definitely talk about porn and ethical porn and porn addiction and all of these different facets of it. And so I'm really, really excited to kind of get into this. And before we even do that, right, I kind of want to talk about how does this thing even work that we're doing every week since it's this

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

new new thing, right. So We mentioned this, I mentioned this in Sex Ed with DB, full length episodes, but essentially these episodes will be coming out every Friday, and this is our first episode ever, and the first three episodes that we do together for Curious Sex Ed will be available through Sex Ed with DB wherever you get your podcasts, if you listen on Spotify or SoundCloud or YouTube or Apple Podcasts, wherever. And then beyond that, we will exclusively be available through Buy Me a Coffee. And so if you wanna check us out, go to buymeacoffee.com slash curioussexed. And if you want access to this amazing content, you can join our bestie crew and you can learn all about that there. Also, if you want to ask an anonymous question, you can find our form on there. And say you're maybe not down to contribute every month, maybe you just wanna say, hey, like I'm proud of the work that you're doing and I'm happy that this content is getting out there. you can give us a little tip and buy us a coffee. And so I just want to shout that out before we even get into our first topic area, Mariah, as it's very important people know how to access this amazing content.

Mariah:

Absolutely. Thank you.

Danielle Bezalel:

Totes my goats. So, let's talk about our personal stories first. What do we really think about porn? And if we could think back a little bit, like how was porn kind of first introduced to us, or how were we introduced to it?

Mariah:

Yeah, I feel like, like a lot of people, I was introduced to it accidentally, like just stumbled upon it. I like, I kind of remember in middle school, I was like at a sleepover and we were all looking at it on the computer, like someone had pulled it up and we were all like around it watching. So yeah, I was like, I was very young and it wasn't like I, I didn't know what it was. I didn't... go to the computer and type something in. It was just like, oh my gosh, what is this? And

Danielle Bezalel:

Right, shock value.

Mariah:

yeah, I was very shocked, very shook, but also kind of like, hmm, what is that? This is interesting, like very curious. I also come from a very like religious background where we don't talk about sex or porn or anything like that. So I didn't think anything related to bodies could go beyond like. marriage or whatever, you know, that kind of idea. So this was very, very, very new. But I think after that, like much later in my life is when I was more intentional about looking up forward. And yeah, I think it like I overall, I feel like I've had a very positive experience with it. Like it's helped me kind of discover things about myself, including my sexuality, like Lesbian porn has been a huge, like a huge, I can't think of the word, but like it's really helped me get to a place where,

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah.

Mariah:

yeah, additive something. So yeah, that's kind of like my journey. It hasn't been an exciting journey. I feel like it's a very common one.

Danielle Bezalel:

I think that's I think it's exciting. I mean, I think that anything about porn is just exciting because people's

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

ears kind of perk up. They're like, what are you talking about? What's going on? Because everyone, especially in our American society is it's very much like unless you were brought up in a family that was very open and very

Mariah:

Oh,

Danielle Bezalel:

talking

Mariah:

no.

Danielle Bezalel:

about it and giving you kind of heads up about what you might encounter and how to decipher these, you know, like that's not

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

most people's experiences. So

Mariah:

Right.

Danielle Bezalel:

I think that that totally makes sense. And I think for me, I remember kind of first encounters with porn as like flipping through cable. And

Mariah:

Mmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

late at night when I was doing this, there was like one of those channels that was like HBO or like something that they played porn.

Mariah:

Yes.

Danielle Bezalel:

Like you didn't even have to put in any sort of password or there you know this was maybe before kind of like trial box on TV quote unquote. But

Mariah:

Yep.

Danielle Bezalel:

I just remember and it was pretty like. intense and I just remember being like, Oh, I'm not supposed to

Mariah:

Ehh

Danielle Bezalel:

watch that. But let me just maybe keep clicking through until I get to it again. Oh my god. And then just kind of, you know, like,

Mariah:

Yep.

Danielle Bezalel:

it was very overwhelming. And I kind of knew right away that it was something that I wasn't supposed to be looking at. But I think very early on, probably as like a middle schooler to that was like something that really surprised me and and titillated me and got me excited and like kind of weirded out.

Mariah:

Yep.

Danielle Bezalel:

And yeah, that that was kind of the first the first experience I had with it.

Mariah:

Yeah, I totally know what you're talking about with the channels. Oh my gosh. It was always like 2 a.m

Danielle Bezalel:

Yes, exactly. Like, obviously it was on so late because that's when adults

Mariah:

Yeah!

Danielle Bezalel:

maybe would be watching it, but like, do they not consider the youth?

Mariah:

Yeah, yeah, no, I have a bunch of siblings and we were, I always thought it was like an accident. Like they're accidentally showing this on here, like, oh no.

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I remember it same same kind of thing. We're like, my cousins came over and they

Mariah:

haha

Danielle Bezalel:

were literally watching TV and we just flipped through it and we all saw it and I was like, oh, so weird

Mariah:

Yep.

Danielle Bezalel:

and embarrassing. But yeah, totally. Yeah, I can feel the tension in my body. But

Mariah:

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

again, like, no one was talking to me about that. No one was saying like, hey, this is a thing that you might encounter or I don't remember if I did go to my parents about it. It's just kind of this like awkward taboo thing.

Mariah:

Yeah, and that makes it super difficult to know, or to ask yourself the question, am I addicted to this? Is this too much? How do I know if I'm watching too much porn? And I think that's where, that's how people arrive at this question of, am I addicted? What's porn addiction? Is because there isn't really a, there isn't a rule book for this kind of stuff.

Danielle Bezalel:

Totally. Yeah, do you wanna talk a little bit about kind of like what that subjectivity about porn addiction can really feel and look like and kind of what are some maybe like signs that someone may have an issue with porn is maybe a better way of saying it.

Mariah:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it really I always kind of go back to like every person is different and like the way we Experience the world including sex and porn really can vary from person to person. It's very subjective, right? So I feel like you each individual has to evaluate how porn makes them feel what their relationship is like But yeah, there are definitely signs. There are things like, you know, you're spending an excessive amount of time watching porn and it's interfering with your daily life, your activities, going to school, work, your relationships, really doing anything new. Like that's probably a sign you might be, you know, have an unhealthy relationship with porn, I guess. Or you're constantly thinking about it, or you have a lot of urges to compulsively watch it. Also, if you feel a lot of shame or guilt, I think that's a really big one, because that can... totally impact a person's relationship with sex and kind of how they show up. And if they're trying to hide it from people. I also think, I'm not a doctor or a psychologist, so I know that I'm sure there's more clinical descriptions of this, but I'm sure if someone's experiencing decreased sexual satisfaction, if they need porn in order to...

Danielle Bezalel:

Hmm.

Mariah:

have satisfying sexual experiences with other people, or maybe even on their own, like with their imagination. Yeah, and I think, like if they're, if it's, if they're going to it when they're going through emotional pain, like it's a coping mechanism versus like something someone's choosing, cause they really like it, and they're going to it to enjoy it, and not necessarily. like their only kind of distraction. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of distractions we have in our life, but like,

Danielle Bezalel:

Right.

Mariah:

it's,

Danielle Bezalel:

That's why it's hard to decipher, right? I mean, like,

Mariah:

yeah,

Danielle Bezalel:

it can be tricky.

Mariah:

very, very, very tricky. But yeah, I feel like those are some pretty, some pretty clear signs, I guess. It's just, if you're consumed, you're like overly consumed when maybe you shouldn't be.

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah, right. Or when you're when you're feeling like it's feeling like it's taking more than it's giving you is like another

Mariah:

Yes.

Danielle Bezalel:

maybe way way to say that and you know, like, we make this disclaimer in the beginning of the episode on purpose like we are not medical professionals.

Mariah:

All

Danielle Bezalel:

And

Mariah:

right.

Danielle Bezalel:

if you're feeling like this, some of these signs, you're you're relating with them. It is really important to chat with a health care expert like a doctor or sex therapist or mental health therapist to really just chat about like, what might be going on. what are those habits that you want to maybe discuss and kind of think through a little bit and what can be done about them? Because

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

this next major question of like, can you become addicted to watching porn like you can become addicted to drugs, right? And like,

Mariah:

Mmm

Danielle Bezalel:

let me just be clear in saying like, this is not researched enough. Like there

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

is not any conclusive evidence on porn addiction. And so I really want to make that like abundantly clear. But we do have a couple of studies and a couple of articles that tell us a few things. So I kind of wanted to share a little bit about that.

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

So according to an article by Insider, pornography addiction is not recognized by the American Psychological Association, the APA, as a mental health problem or disorder, like drug or alcohol addiction, right? Some individuals can report feeling addicted to porn, but the scientific community has not yet reached a consensus on whether or not it meets that criteria. for a diagnosable disorder. So like, that's a big way of saying, like, we don't know yet, we really

Mariah:

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

don't know yet. Like, potentially part of it is that porn hasn't been around for long enough to really understand like the effects that are going on. And there is a difference in the scientific community. There are some folks who think that, yes, porn addiction is real, here's the science behind that. And there are some scientific folks who say, no, it's not, and here's why.

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

And so, you know, even though though, porn addiction has yet to be recognized as a diagnosable condition, there is behavior around porn use that has been described as, quote, problematic porn use, right? Which is essentially the signs that we mentioned above.

Mariah:

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

And so it's definitely possible to have a very unhealthy relationship with porn in which a person really depends on it, they watch it excessively, they're consumed by it without the ability to control themselves. And I think labeling this for some people as porn addiction makes sense. And everyone is entitled to the way in which they want to label themselves. And

Mariah:

Totally.

Danielle Bezalel:

at the same time, right, like, it's important to consult that medical provider to give them

Mariah:

Yep.

Danielle Bezalel:

the facts and hear what they have to say on it. And the last thing I'll say on that is kind of problematic internet porn is viewing internet pornography that is problematic for that person for a number of reasons, right? And we mentioned some of those signs above. And if you're someone who's uncomfortable with the amount of porn or the type of porn that you are consuming and the way that it impacts your life and it makes you feel, then it's really important to really, really think, okay, do I have a problem? Is there a way that I can be addressing this with anybody who's a professional?

Mariah:

Yeah, exactly. And I kind of like you were saying, like any sort of, or maybe you didn't say this, I don't know. You said

Danielle Bezalel:

Maybe

Mariah:

something,

Danielle Bezalel:

I was thinking it.

Mariah:

yeah, and made me think like, not just like the emotional distress, but like also the physical thing, like if you're hurting yourself, is it, it's causing a lot of pain, you know. Sex and porn and all of these things should be very pleasurable. And if you like pain, that's cool, but like, of course there's a, you know, a difference between. hurting yourself because you can't stop versus

Danielle Bezalel:

Right.

Mariah:

intentionally choosing that, right? So yeah, I totally agree with the sentiment of like, it's really important to talk with someone who is specializes in this healthcare provider, any like sort of mental health specialist or therapist, because they're going to be the people who can kind of support and guide an individual to try and figure out. if this is an issue, if there does need to be some sort of solution or what steps someone can take to have a healthier relationship.

Danielle Bezalel:

Exactly. And on that note, you know, I if you're interested, if you're listening on kind of what a healthy relationship could look like with someone watching and consuming porn, what maybe ethical porn is, and what that

Mariah:

Mmm.

Danielle Bezalel:

looks like kind of the advanced conversation around porn that goes beyond this idea that we're peddling this idea maybe of like, only porn is negative, right? Like, we want to cover this because people are asking. And I think It's a reflection of what people are feeling and thinking in our society. But we want to be very clear as sex educators that porn can also be very healthy for people and can bring people

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

a lot of joy and have an opportunity for people to explore their sexuality and their kinks and their desires and what they like and really explore and expand that for them. And so if you're if you're interested in learning more about that or other aspects of porn, please check out our anonymous question box in our. Buy Me a Coffee page, if you go to buymeacoffee.com slash Curious Sex Ed, you can learn again about our bestie crew, how to support us, how to gain access to this exclusive content if you enjoyed this first episode, and you can click on the anonymous question box link there. And Mariah, thank you so much. We did it, this is our first episode, we crushed

Mariah:

I know.

Danielle Bezalel:

it.

Mariah:

Yes, I'm really excited. And I just want to add and make it super clear. I love, I love porn and I

Danielle Bezalel:

We

Mariah:

really,

Danielle Bezalel:

Love porn.

Mariah:

I love porn. I really, really value the people who create porn, who are

Danielle Bezalel:

Yeah.

Mariah:

behind like sex workers, people who are writing the porn. Like there's so much, like you said, there's so much joy and good that can be found, especially in ethical porn. But... we can talk about the unhealthy side of things and relationships people might have with it, as well as the good. And I think I like that about these conversations.

Danielle Bezalel:

Me too, me

Mariah:

Yeah.

Danielle Bezalel:

too. And if you enjoyed this, we hope to see you around next Friday in our next Curious Sex Ed episode, where we will be talking about BDSM and sexual kink. And I hope you all stay curious, see you soon.